tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post7919819805682895290..comments2024-03-19T00:30:09.503-07:00Comments on DIY & dragons: Should we Start Numbering Hallways on our Maps?Annehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-19773881880186613842019-12-12T07:45:18.200-08:002019-12-12T07:45:18.200-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Venger Satanishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04447932700800930510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-24614642883754609822019-08-23T15:56:11.381-07:002019-08-23T15:56:11.381-07:00Excuse me for commenting on a post three months la...Excuse me for commenting on a post three months late, but this popped up in my feed reader, and I found it interesting.<br /><br />I've taken a very different tack to solving this issue. Instead of labeling them, I've largely eliminated corridors in my dungeons altogether. The rooms mostly just lead into each other. <br /><br />We play short sessions, and I try anything I can to move things forward and reduce the friction of tedious option pondering. <br /><br />I think a lot of dungeons would benefit from fewer hallways. Deadtreenoshelterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18109223559705593102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-50078752986535825002019-06-07T11:50:27.266-07:002019-06-07T11:50:27.266-07:00True - if you can manage it, putting the clues dir...True - if you can manage it, putting the clues directly into the art of the map would work. <br /><br />I think the key here is just to think about the clues at the mapping stage, and make sure that you insert them in SOME WAY that you'll be able to find them easily when you're running the dungeon. If the GM can't find the clue in about 15 second or less, they're probably not going to say the clue out loud to the players.Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-16124296871750662332019-06-05T11:12:11.904-07:002019-06-05T11:12:11.904-07:00You're right about that. I number hallways if ...You're right about that. I number hallways if there's something interesting to put in them. If not they just become a liminal space between the areas they connect. If the next room has glowing fungus the door and hallway will have little bits of glowing fungus. If one wanted to number all their hallways two or three nouns might be enough to spark ideas.vilecultofshapeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14457093812421502016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-27198094085864674172019-06-05T10:18:08.903-07:002019-06-05T10:18:08.903-07:00This is where art-filled maps are possibly very us...This is where art-filled maps are possibly very useful. If the artwork on the map shows cobwebs, and I know that they look of the map is pretty much an in-game view (not necessarily an in-game artefact), then it is easier to narrate that a given hallway has a specific look and feel.<br /><br />Downside is more time, and the map becomes less flexible.bentleymthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15329592536225130883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-62681012353958160282019-06-03T17:30:54.282-07:002019-06-03T17:30:54.282-07:00For sure, you'd want any clues to be as quick ...For sure, you'd want any clues to be as quick to read through as possible.<br /><br />"If I know what's in the area" is really the difficulty here though, isn't it? I'm not sure if numbering hallways is the BEST way to get that information to the GM at the right time, but I have a sense that getting the GM to know what's in the area when they need to know it can be difficult unless there's a numbered entry to check.Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-151378825091143892019-06-03T17:27:29.883-07:002019-06-03T17:27:29.883-07:00Up above, John B suggests using letters for hallwa...Up above, John B suggests using letters for hallways. I can see the logic.<br /><br />Does it make sense to differentiate them? I'm not sure. If halls are just long skinny empty rooms, then maybe we should just treat them like other rooms?Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-25886427925445120372019-06-03T17:26:19.683-07:002019-06-03T17:26:19.683-07:00That certainly makes sense. Thanks for mentioning ...That certainly makes sense. Thanks for mentioning it, Beoric!Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-10948832823550713722019-06-03T17:25:41.629-07:002019-06-03T17:25:41.629-07:00Having room names written on the map is probably a...Having room names written on the map is probably a good idea for helping the GM (assuming there's enough space to use a decent font-size). Thanks for suggesting it, Alistair!<br /><br />Also thanks, Tamás, for the link!Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-12957516227518854892019-06-03T03:21:21.045-07:002019-06-03T03:21:21.045-07:00Thanks for the post (and the link) Anne, it's ...Thanks for the post (and the link) Anne, it's got me thinking. I always manage to mess maps up when describing/drawing them for the players so I have been thinking about scrapping the map and using a node diagram instead. Rooms are nodes (with descriptions and key info) and the lines joining become corridors or doorways. So I thought if I label the LINES that can be a description of the corridor and can provide information for making decisions...Tom Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00512219290892896310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-37145975728219155352019-06-02T18:26:11.500-07:002019-06-02T18:26:11.500-07:00Thanks, Tom!Thanks, Tom!Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-40481880288134080742019-06-02T18:26:02.719-07:002019-06-02T18:26:02.719-07:00Thanks for the advice, John!
And Gus, you're ...Thanks for the advice, John!<br /><br />And Gus, you're right that you could then re-use the letters for halls with identical clues.Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-81224503774765534152019-06-02T15:43:28.367-07:002019-06-02T15:43:28.367-07:00Thanks for sharing! So it sounds like your experie...Thanks for sharing! So it sounds like your experience is that room keys are enough to put clues into the halls?Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-63840654879955966062019-06-02T14:05:58.878-07:002019-06-02T14:05:58.878-07:00You make an interesting point about drawing maps f...You make an interesting point about drawing maps for resource-management play. It makes sense that while you want the normal amount of empty rooms, you might not want very many halls, which could just slow things down too much.Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-14616127850731557312019-06-02T09:08:04.165-07:002019-06-02T09:08:04.165-07:00If the dungeon room descriptions are consolidated,...If the dungeon room descriptions are consolidated, that is terse and evocative rather than exact, it becomes easier at a glance to weave the locality into the hallway.<br /><br />I don't like long room descriptions in modules. I want the key elements and feel so i can spin my own thing out of a dozen words. You can fit twenty rooms on a page this way.<br /><br />Also coming to a doorway or intersection with not much to go on becomes a problem of known unknowns or such and context. Where have we been? What have we seen? Is this place like the last place? As soon as my players stop and start thinking I'll begin giving them extra hints as to whats nearby, sounds smells lights etc. If they want to know something they can't tell just by standing still I'll offer suggestions for what they could do to find out. If they take a risk by peeking down a hallway or pulling grates off the wall I'll really reward them with some kind of discovery. I dont need a key to do this if i know whats in the area. The problem with keying hallways is exacerbating the need to flip through pages cos there's so much shit to sift through.<br /><br />I'm in the process of translating old modules like B1 into Chris McDowall's hyperterse style. We'll see if it works.vilecultofshapeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14457093812421502016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-74869178998944582172019-06-01T22:39:31.687-07:002019-06-01T22:39:31.687-07:00I had a keyed entry for the robot wolves, both the...I had a keyed entry for the robot wolves, both the initial encounter and their lair. The keys were actually in rooms, but I noted in the room keys how they would use the hallway to lure the players into an ambush.<br /><br />The dim lights were regional- there was a central area of the complex that was well lit (due to being considered essential rooms by the creators of the base), but everything else was dim, barely lit. I didn't really keep track of the dim lighting- it was more that I kept track of which rooms were lit, and everything that wasn't had dim lighting. This made it really easy to remember that detail when the players left the central area. <br /><br />The blood was very specific and if I had been more thorough with my notes I actually would have noted it on the map key- it was hinting at a room up ahead where Bad Things had happened. I was very aware of where this room was, so I remembered to give the players clues when they got closer. Maplehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01125740523827661666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-63727904257618404882019-06-01T21:24:44.418-07:002019-06-01T21:24:44.418-07:00Should hallways get numbers or be differentiated f...Should hallways get numbers or be differentiated from rooms by getting letters instead? Is it worth differentiating?TPmanWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08415910295872695542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-79058848623319303432019-06-01T11:46:16.180-07:002019-06-01T11:46:16.180-07:00Rather than referencing a number of corridors when...Rather than referencing a number of corridors when the PCs get to an intersection, I have been numbering intersections.Beorichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05179135838206052198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-81212606039821016982019-06-01T09:27:54.062-07:002019-06-01T09:27:54.062-07:00I should give a shout out to Roger GS from Roles, ...I should give a shout out to Roger GS from Roles, Rules, and Rolls whose written before about the importance of good map keys because improvisation is difficult.<br /><br />http://rolesrules.blogspot.com/2012/07/mediocrity-of-improvisation.html<br /><br />http://rolesrules.blogspot.com/2012/04/osr-contradiction-2-player-skill-vs.htmlAnnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-83387910060808473912019-06-01T09:13:22.876-07:002019-06-01T09:13:22.876-07:00I like the variety of clues you managed to fit int...I like the variety of clues you managed to fit into otherwise featureless halls!<br /><br />And you're right, if there's no clue present, there's probably not much point in keying the hall. Did you have keyed entries for the robot wolf or the dim lights or bloody walls? Or if not, how did you keep track of those details?<br /><br />And of course you're right, talking to residents of the dungeon is an excellent way to get information about the general layout of the place.Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-60791742889587955332019-06-01T09:10:03.840-07:002019-06-01T09:10:03.840-07:00On your second point, Roger GS talks about this pr...On your second point, Roger GS talks about this problem of un-described traps, and this was definitely on my mind writing this. If traps are supposed to be discovered using player skill, then the person writing the dungeon needs to describe them - it will be too difficult for the GM to come up with descriptions on the spot with no help from the writer.<br />http://rolesrules.blogspot.com/2012/04/osr-contradiction-2-player-skill-vs.html<br /><br />To your first point, I think noting clues directly on the map would work just fine. It would actually be easier than numbering the halls, because you wouldn't need to go read the hall description on another page. Named rooms certainly help as well.<br /><br />My larger point is just that if you want clues to be present, you should write them in advance, because it can be difficult to invent them quickly at the table.<br /><br />I also think we should leave random dungeon dressing as a relic of the past. A random table of false clues and red herrings is probably worse than featureless halls.Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15493700749333105771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-14007673709830761082019-06-01T05:16:52.070-07:002019-06-01T05:16:52.070-07:00Lettered and keyed hallways and corridors are a st...Lettered and keyed hallways and corridors are a standard feature of the random dungeons generated at https://donjon.bin.sh/5e/dungeon/ Tamás Kisbalihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07435665608570670441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-79234133554702441422019-05-31T23:35:14.214-07:002019-05-31T23:35:14.214-07:00Can’t point to specific examples, but I’ve seen a ...Can’t point to specific examples, but I’ve seen a few maps around where there are room names at least (the memory jogging suggestion mentioned above) and also notes around some corridors and tunnels about things that can be heard, felt or smelled from a particular direction. That impressed me as a good trick to employ. Works well if the map isn’t too busy, so that is another way to go, but is a bit limited too. So as a shorthand memory jogger, backed by your proposal, I think that is a method well worth following.Alistairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04631364538623314004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-46542263628143687802019-05-31T22:29:16.953-07:002019-05-31T22:29:16.953-07:00I think it works best in multiple visit dungeons y...I think it works best in multiple visit dungeons yes, lair dungeons (5-15 rooms say) likely don't have or need many long halls. <br /><br />Likewise I don't think it precludes halls with character, only that halls can serve a distinct mechanical purpose independent of their organic or narrative purpose within the dungeon. It's odd because I tend to design fairly hall free dungeons with a lot of rooms abutting each-other (my mega-dungeon design has largely been more nodal then something like ASE which really uses long hallways to good effect, partially out of necessity). I think this is also partially the result of using an exploration/overloaded encounter die mechanic which makes every turn more tense and appears to deplete supply resources more quickly (it shouldn't based on the percentages - but it seems to). I also tend to use pretty abstracted movement - so I may not be practicing what I'm preaching here.Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2018265247036237861.post-39906581022797501162019-05-31T17:09:16.331-07:002019-05-31T17:09:16.331-07:00Thanks. It's an old post but I was pretty sure...Thanks. It's an old post but I was pretty sure plenty of folks could find something useful in there.JDsivrajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10674833512849495283noreply@blogger.com